Turning back the tide at Dover
I’ve got a Google News Alert set for “dover evolution”, following the acceptance of creationism (known in America by some people as Intelligent Design) onto the curriculum of a school in Pennsylvania. The plan is/was to write up a short piece on event for TUP, along with the cartoon below from a site which offers hours of juvenile fun. The article hasn’t been written yet because it is a controversial subject and I thought it a good idea to read a little around it on both sides of the subject. I still haven’t written it a few months on because there’s a lot to read. It seems the big issue most people concentrate on is whether an alternative to Darwinism should be taught at high school. In fact it could be much more serious.
It’s going to be a difficult subject to tackle. I can see three ways of approaching it. One is to tackle the obvious Irredeemable Stupidity in the argument for Creationism. It does sound a simple task There’s not one shred of evidence Creationism. So Creationists try and muddy the waters with a grab bag of non-sequiturs. The idea is that if they cast enough doubt on Natural Selection the Creationism becomes reasonable.
Imagine meeting a Creationist on a blind date:
Hi, is your name Mary?
Umm… no sorry.
In that case you must be Sue Weston of Manchester, because my miniscule imagination cannot consider there could be another alternative.
Actually no, I’m someone else. I think you’ve made a mistake.
I don’t think so, you did say you weren’t Mary didn’t you?
Yes, but…
Then logically you must be Sue Weston of Manchester. By the way that’s a bible in my pocket, but I am pleased to see you.
Frankly the Creationists could prove that Darwin got it wrong, but no amount of evidence against Darwin will prove Creationism right. There’s another side issue that Creationists haven’t got any evidence against Darwin. The best they can do is try and void evidence for evolution like the entire fossil record as a conspiracy. It is a problem, but this angle has been done to death (or rather I wish it had died a death) and done a lot better by other people. Also I wonder really how important science is to creationism.
It’ll probably be this second tack I take. The creationists clearly have no interest in science. I’ve recently been told that the creation of subatomic particles in super-colliders proves Creation. Clearly fact-based reasoning has left the building. I think that analysing the methods and reasoning of the Creationists could be useful. Why do they reject Natural Selection, and also why do they feel the need for Creationism to be acknowledged as a Science? There’s a lot to read and it will take time. I’ve got Creationism’s Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design by Barbara Carroll Forrest and Paul Gross to read. From the bit I have read it’s fascinating. It argues there is a concerted political effort called the ‘Wedge’ to introduce creationism into the classroom, using Intelligent Design to smuggle Christianity into science. I stuggle with the sanity of this.
William Dembski argues that Intelligent Design is not creationism, but a serious scientific challenge to Darwinism.
the nature of [the] cause–whether it is one or many, whether it is a part of or separate from the world, and even whether it is good or evil–simply do not fall within intelligent design’s purview.
He’s wrong. By his own logic he’s wrong. If life is irreducibly complex then let’s say design is natural. What of the designer? If she was designed, then what of her designer and so on. Turtles all the way down is not an explanation. If she was not designed by simply sprung into being then she exists as a supernatural force. Intelligent Design therefore cannot be scientific either offering the explanation “That’s just the way it goes”, or else “The Magic Pixie did it.” Explanations invoking Pixies are rarely considered scientific. So scientifically Intelligent Design poses no problem. But theologically it’s a poison.
Intelligent Design, done properly, becomes a theological discussion of how little evidence there is for the Christian god. There is, based on the evidence, not more reason to believe in the Christian god than a singing Rainbow Snake in the Australian outback as the ultimate creator. It is not a tool for putting spirituality into science, but for extracting Jesus from Christianity. Christians are not universally stupid people. If Intelligent Design is getting support from the Christian fundamentalists then it must be based on Christian theology. Which brings us back to the ‘Wedge’.
Introducing Christianity into schools is, from an American perspective, a Bad Thing as it flouts the constitution regarding the separation between church and state. There’s not a major puzzle about why religious fundamentalists want to overturn the constitution. Religious fundamentalists of any stripe are eager to establish theocracies.
Another issue which is perhaps less frequently raised is why intelligent people in government are happy to tacitly support this. This applies to the UK too where Tony Blair is happy with Emanuel College, Gateshead teaching Creationism. Why?
Politicians want to get re-elected. The more options they have to pursue to do this the better. Science is potentially is a barrier to this. If you take it seriously it can stop politicians from doing whatever they choose. How do you deflect that? You reduce science from a question of fact to opinion, belief and feeling. Politically in the short-term curbing science is an excellent strategy. There are immediate gains in doing what you want and the charge is foisted onto the next political generation. In the longer term there will be a price to pay. Nature doesn’t care what fundamentalists think. Creationists are rather like King Canute trying to hold back the tide. Are a bunch of Canutes the best people to set a science syllabus?
I don’t have a solution, but I should note that I did go to a school that taught an alternative to Darwinian Evolution and there was never any tension between science and nonsense. The alternative I was taught was Lamarckian Evolution. The lesson as I recall went something like “Lamarck thought giraffes evolved by stretching their necks and passing the longer neck to their offspring. Can anyone explain why this is rubbish without referring to Three Blind Mice?” Can we teach Creationism as a science and demonstrate why as a science it is an utter failure. The problem and it’s a biggie with this is that it opens Christianity to ridicule, which requires brave teachers in a land where fundamentalists are either armed or worse, lawyers. On the plus side it would lead to fundamentalists campaigning to have Creationism removed from school syllabi.
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Hi Alun, love the new look. Everything looks so neat and organized… could you do something ’bout my desk?:-)
Re Dover, glad you mentioned it, I belong to the Yahoo group debunkcreation, which tackles many such issues. Recently, a bunch of people from the list sent Dover a chunk of science books after hearing that the school had accepted many copies of “Panda’s Thumb”. This caused a stir and the school was forced to accept the real science books. Give the group a go, posting is voluminous but the owner, Lenny Flank, is extremely knowledgeable on the whole Cre-ID charade.
Correction: Creationism and ID are *meant* to be different. The IDer argument is that life is too “complex” not to have been the result of “intelligent design”. It’s basically religious apologetics dressed up as science, to try and get this crap in the science classroom. Not every creationist is an IDer, staunch creationists see no reason why god should now be termed the un-named intelligent designer.
The big issue is not to teach an alternative, they want to teach something that is plainly NOT science in the science classroom. Cre-IDers have lost each and every court battle and yet they keep at it. It is actually illegal to peddle that crap in school. For more info I really suggest you join the DC group and speak to Lenny.
You said: Frankly the Creationists could prove that Darwin got it wrong,
No they couldn’t. Evolution has been observed countless times.
See http://www.antiquityofman.com/pseudoscience.html — it’s my other half’s site and there’s plenty of info in that section. Also see http://www.talkorigins.org, which neatly and beautifully destroys every creationist argument. Also see NCSE’s site: http://www.ncseweb.org .
There is simply no science in Cre-ID. I am appalled that both Labour and Tories are encouraging the Vardy Foundation. See here: http://www.blackshadow.co.uk — a DC list member and a tireless campaigner against this flummery. If you need more info/feedback for your TUP article, feel free to drop me a line.
On the issue of proving that Darwin got it wrong, the point I was trying to make was that unless creationism (of any type) has a positive research programme that makes useful predictions it will not be a science and have no use. If /when I write it up I’ll phrase it as Even if the Creationists could prove that Darwin got it wrong…
Thanks for the links. If I write it up I’ll probably look at it by asking why Creationists feel biblical creation has to be a science. Many Pagans I know who reject scientific findings are simply happy to state that scientists are wrong and faith is correct. For a “creation scientist” faith doesn’t cut and a Christian fundamentalist with no faith is a fascinating concept.
Tied to this is the acceptance of creationism by the political establishment. Why are they willing to pretend it’s a science? I’d love to know why. I can’t accept it’s the long arm of Opus Dei. The easy answer is that it’s a vote-grabber with a well organised subculture, but that doesn’t really work as an explanation either. There is a small but vocal voting block among the racists, but these people are usually left to the BNP, UKIP and Veritas.
Note for non-UK residents. Veritas is a party dedicated to removing foreign influences from the UK. I assume they called themselves Veritas because they didn’t know the Latin word for ‘irony’.
As for the subject of the new look, Athena caught me testing a new style sheet. The site still isn’t print-friendly. Possibly because half the code is in German and the other half English, but it’s midnight and I can’t imagine there are many people wanting to print out material.
You wrote:
On the issue of proving that Darwin got it wrong, the point I was trying to make was that unless creationism (of any type) has a positive research programme that makes useful predictions it will not be a science and have no use.
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Creationism has not one shred of science, as the NCSE and others have pointed out. Many times.Even courts have told cre-IDiots that they have no science.
You wrote:
Thanks for the links. If I write it up I’ll probably look at it by asking why Creationists feel biblical creation has to be a science.
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Religious apologetics. You are dealing here with seriously fundamentalist folks — they’ve often been compared to the Taliban and when you’ve spent years following them you’ll understand why. I’ve only been into this for the past three/four years. Lenny, on DC, has been doing it since the 80s, he is far more qualified to provide answers.
While creation “scientists” whinge at length that what they are doing is science,their bottom line is “god did it and so there”. A few things to note:
There are two types of creation “science”. The Old Earth Creationists (OEC) accept that the earth is 14 billion years old, but that god created everything in seven days, everything at a go, so there were dinos and humans roaming around together and none is older than 6000 yrs. “Evidence” they site are the Paluxy footprints which are umm dino not dino and human prints.
Young Earth Creationists (YECs) follow Bishop Usher’s famous date, which is c 6000 yrs old and are also Biblical literalists. Everything, including the earth is 6000 yrs old. They are happy to ignore science and the internal inconsistencies within Genesis, nothing matters to them in the end but their fundy crap, which they want to extend to all areas of life.
The Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and Answers in Genesis (AIG) are two of their main arms. Among other amusing things you will find on AIG is a list of arguments creationists have been told NOT to use. Of course they use them anyway — you will quickly find that consistency is not a creationist trait. You will also see a list of people with impressive PHDs — all from diploma mills or, in the case of “Dr” Kent Hovind, from his own, unaccredited umm university.
Questions to annoy a cretinist, just for starters:
a. what is an allele? (they won’t know?)
b. if there was a worldwide flood, how come there are no flood layers at… oh I don’t know Jericho and Klasies River Mouth among other places?
c. If Noah had x amount of ppl on ark (forgot amount), how come there is an increased number of alleles now?
d. Speaking of Noah and animals… what is a kind? A species? Genera? Family? Taxa? I am willing to bet my secret stash of chocolate that none will give you an answer, at most you will hear silly things like “well a lion and a buffalo cannot have babies so they are two kinds”.
d. Ask how plant species survived the “flood”. Did you know that trees could run? No seriously, these are the kind of statements you get — one creature even claimed that water ran uphill.
You will also find that most of these loons reject things such as the germ theory of disease. Philip Johnson (an ID dude) even rejects HIV as causing AIDS. AIDS is simply caused by… sin.
Now you’ve picked your jaw off the floor… drop it and pick it again and get used to it. This is what you will be dealing with.
You wrote:
Tied to this is the acceptance of creationism by the political establishment. Why are they willing to pretend it’s a science?
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Bush is a newborn Christian who is essentially stupid and couldn’t tell a prokaryote from a pachyderm (neither can creationists btw). He is keen on preserving the religious, republican, white right.
Blair is another idiot who is keen to:
a. Become as Americanized as possible, forgetting that the rest of us love Britain simply ‘cos it’s Britain not America.
b. Get money for education.
c. He harbours religious sentinments himself and both he and his wife are very prone to alternative rubbish. See for example the Carole Caplin fiasco, and Cherie Blair flaunting healing crystals.
d. Education is in an abysmal state at the moment, these schools are seen as “achievers”, so it’ll look good no for Labour to have a bunch of schools achieving “good results”. Why the Tories are endorsing this just beats me completely.
Not sure if the Opus Dei are creationists, I do know that John Paul II magnanimously accepted evolution — or rather theistic evolution (everything happened as the scientists say but of course god did it). The OD are meant to be the long arm of the RCC, they are known for their extremism but I’m not sure if it extends to creation science.
Apologies for the length of the post, it’s just that this isn’t a simple subject:-) One last thought to cheer you up: According to creation scientists, you and I are going to hell. Bring beer.