300 + 700 = 1000
I’m looking forward to seeing the film, but doesn’t the bravery of 700 Thespians who weren’t professional soldiers but chose to face impossible odds deserve to be remembered?
Herodotus VII.202-3:
These were the Hellenes who awaited the attack of the Persian in this place:–of the Spartans three hundred hoplites; of the men of Tegea and Mantineia a thousand, half from each place, from Orchomenos in Arcadia a hundred and twenty, and from the rest of Arcadia a thousand,–of the Arcadians so many; from Corinth four hundred, from Phlius two hundred, and of the men of Mykene eighty: these were they who came from the Peloponnese; and from the Bœotians seven hundred of the Thespians, and of the Thebans four hundred. In addition to these the Locrians of Opus had been summoned to come in their full force, and of the Phokians a thousand: for the Hellenes had of themselves sent a summons to them, saying by messengers that they had come as forerunners of the others, that the rest of the allies were to be expected every day, that their sea was safely guarded, being watched by the Athenians and the Eginetans and by those who had been appointed to serve in the fleet, and that they need fear nothing: for he was not a god, they said, who was coming to attack Hellas, but a man; and there was no mortal, nor would be any, with those fortunes evil had not been mingled at his very birth, and the greatest evils for the greatest men; therefore he also who was marching against them, being mortal, would be destined to fail of his expectation. They accordingly, hearing this, came to the assistance of the others at Trachis.
Leonidas takes the omens and dismisses the allies. Then…
Herodotus VII.222-7
The allies then who were dismissed departed and went away, obeying the word of Leonidas, and only the Thespians and the Thebans remained behind with the Lacedemonians. Of these the Thebans stayed against their will and not because they desired it, for Leonidas kept them, counting them as hostages; but the Thespians very willingly, for they said that they would not depart and leave Leonidas and those with him, but they stayed behind and died with them. The commander of these was Demophilos the son of Diadromes.Xerxes meanwhile, having made libations at sunrise, stayed for some time, until about the hour when the market fills, and then made an advance upon them; for thus it had been enjoined by Epialtes, seeing that the descent of the mountain is shorter and the space to be passed over much less than the going round and the ascent. The Barbarians accordingly with Xerxes were advancing to the attack; and the Hellenes with Leonidas, feeling that they were going forth to death, now advanced out much further than at first into the broader part of the defile; for when the fence of the wall was being guarded, they on the former days fought retiring before the enemy into the narrow part of the pass; but now they engaged with them outside the narrows, and very many of the Barbarians fell: for behind them the leaders of the divisions with scourges in their hands were striking each man, ever urging them on to the front. Many of them then were driven into the sea and perished, and many more still were trodden down while yet alive by one another, and there was no reckoning of the number that perished: for knowing the death which was about to come upon them by reason of those who were going round the mountain, they displayed upon the Barbarians all the strength which they had, to its greatest extent, disregarding danger and acting as if possessed by a spirit of recklessness.
Now by this time the spears of the greater number of them were broken, so it chanced, in this combat, and they were slaying the Persians with their swords; and in this fighting fell Leonidas, having proved himself a very good man, and others also of the Spartans with him, men of note, of whose names I was informed as of men who had proved themselves worthy, and indeed I was told also the names of all the three hundred. Moreover of the Persians there fell here, besides many others of note, especially two sons of Dareios, Abrocomes and Hyperanthes, born to Dareios of Phratagune the daughter of Artanes: now Artanes was the brother of king Dareios and the son of Hystaspes, the son of Arsames; and he in giving his daughter in marriage to Dareios gave also with her all his substance, because she was his only child. Two brothers of Xerxes, I say, fell here fighting; and meanwhile over the body of Leonidas there arose a great struggle between the Persians and the Lacedemonians, until the Hellenes by valour dragged this away from the enemy and turned their opponents to flight four times.
This conflict continued until those who had gone with Epialtes came up; and when the Hellenes learnt that these had come, from that moment the nature of the combat was changed; for they retired backwards to the narrow part of the way, and having passed by the wall they went and placed themselves upon the hillock, all in a body together except only the Thebans: now this hillock is in the entrance, where now the stone lion is placed for Leonidas. On this spot while defending themselves with daggers, that is those who still had them left, and also with hands and with teeth, they were overwhelmed by the missiles of the Barbarians, some of these having followed directly after them and destroyed the fence of the wall, while others had come round and stood about them on all sides.
Such were the proofs of valour given by the Lacedemonians and Thespians; yet the Spartan Dienekes is said to have proved himself the best man of all, the same who, as they report, uttered this saying before they engaged battle with the Medes:–being informed by one of the men of Trachis that when the Barbarians discharged their arrows they obscured the light of the sun by the multitude of the arrows, so great was the number of their host, he was not dismayed by this, but making small account of the number of the Medes, he said that their guest from Trachis brought them very good news, for if the Medes obscured the light of the sun, the battle against them would be in the shade and not in the sun. This and other sayings of this kind they report that Dienekes the Lacedemonian left as memorials of himself; and after him the bravest they say of the Lacedemonians were two brothers Alpheos and Maron, sons of Orsiphantos. Of the Thespians the man who gained most honour was named Dithyrambos son of Harmatides.
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about 3 years ago
Tee hee….I’m giddy with anticipation. And yes, you’re right. The other soldiers deserve to be remembered as well but that doesn’t make for a great story, therefore great history.
My question is this, if the 300 Spartans and the 700 Thespians who joined them all died, how did Herodutos write his History? If it was based on information from the Persian side, would you want to be known that only 300 men fought you off for a few days before being destroyed? I’d pad the numbers too. Regardless of which side provided the information that his History is based on, we have to take it with a grain of salt. Chances are the numbers are not accurate on either side – fewer numbers to make the Spartans and their allies look more heroic and brave, greater numbers for the Persian army to make them look stronger, more overpowering. But what do I know, I only too one class in Ancient Greek history and it was an overview of art and archaeology. You’re the expert, right?
Regardless, I’m still shaking in my booties (or is that shaking my boobies?) at the thought of this movie! EEEEEK! Vincent Regan in a speedo….sorry, I need a moment alone.
about 3 years ago
Herodotus has an answer:
So perhaps it should be the 297 Spartans.
about 3 years ago
When I first read it, I thought that guy’s name was PANTIES…
Somehow 297 doesn’t have the same impact as “300″. Three guys make a big difference
Now I’m going to have to read Herodotus’s Histories. Nuts, yet another book to add to the pile.
about 3 years ago
I’d prefer seeing a movie based on Pressfield’s novel “The Gates of Fire”. I think we have had enough awful movies about ancient Greece lately!
about 3 years ago
Pressfield’s novel was quite good. However the only movies about ancient Greece that I can think of recently are Troy (such potential but failed miserably) and Alexander (I’ll be watching this tonight to see just how bad it really is). While they both didn’t do nearly as well as the filmmakers expected (especially considering the plethora of big names) it’s not like we’re being overrun by Greeks. Ooh that could be fun. AND Vincent was in Troy and is in the upcoming 300….wouldn’t mind being overrun by him…sorry, I digress. Damn you Alun for creating a post on 300!!!!
about 3 years ago
“Deserve” is irrelevant. None of us get the punishment or the praise we deserve. It’s just what’s good for the story, as in real time what happens to me depends on what’s good for the community, a community as small as a workplace or bigger than all humanity.
I am a cog. My only choice is whose cog to be, whether my master is a person, group or something abstract.
I didn’t learn that from the movies, either old ones or new ones. Both are so different from reality. But somehow I still remember seeing all those arrows in the air when the Persians finish off the Spartans in the 1962 movie, however many were left from whatever city-state. I don’t expect to see anything as stirring as that in a new movie, not for me.
But then in the seventies I saw Patton and his speech made much more sense. The goal is not to die for your country. It’s to make the guys on the other side die for theirs. Understanding that changes the meaning of a noble death.
about 3 years ago
I was about to vehemently disagree with you David, until I realised we’re talking about two different things. I think you’re right for the film missing Thespians would probably be a good thing for the drama, as would 300 Spartan corpses. However, if all stories told ignore the Thespian contribution (there was even a chip shop in Loughborough called the 300 Spartans), then would could ask if there’s a wider injustice. Were the Thespians wrongfully ignored?
For most sane people the answer probably doesn’t matter. But the justification for the answer, the process we use to get to it, is extremely important. For instance there are minorities that make convenient bad guys in Hollywood films. Some of these choices are justified. There may be a particular reasons why a specific drug dealer has to be black, or a terrorist Arabic. But if films consistently feature Black drug dealers or Arabic terrorists then questions should be asked.
I don’t think this is a major moral issue for the filmmakers of 300, it’s clearly not meant to be taken as real, but I think the issue is important for historians if they want to investigate history instead of parrot it.
Was the 1962 film the one where the Spartans fought to “defend democracy” from the Persians?
about 3 years ago
Oh, I do hope for realistic history more than I hope for realistic movies. History can accept 297 Spartans plus whatever other Greeks were there and be better history for such completeness. As scientists, we need the best data we can get. But even then I see it as one’s utility to the overall goal, not what one deserves. Most of us are destined to have no place in history, or as a nameless citizen of our country or member of our profession. I’m fine with it. I may even prefer my anonymity, being less of a target that way, even posthumously. Life is the gift, fame not so much.
I struggle to understand what the 300 Spartans represented to Spartans or anyone else. There is ruthlessness necessary to protect one’s loved ones, but then that also protects what is evil about one’s country. Some other people have been able to tease apart the virtue of the former from questioning the latter. That’s not part of the Spartan legacy. If Spartans had been flexible, they might have survived their neighbors’ hatred for them. But they weren’t. So they’re famous. And they’re famous for dying to the last man instead of learning to redeploy at the right time and kill more Persians along the road, maybe even survive in the end. It’s all propaganda to focus on the 300 Spartans. It’s all a distortion of reality. So to get history right, of course there’s more to say.
Richard Egan’s Leonidas may indeed have been saving Greece for democracy in 1962, 20th century Cold Warrior that he was. I don’t remember. I remember the sky being blotted out by Persian arrows. I remember them even better than the girl some Spartan tried to leave behind but couldn’t, a blonde was she? I was too young to appreciate a lot of that.
about 3 years ago
If Spartans had been flexible, they might have survived their neighbors’ hatred for them.
That’s an interesting comment. Unfortunately it’s exactly what I’ll be talking about in a 1st year seminar in a few weeks’ time. They have been known to read this and I don’t want to give the impression I’m looking for a right answer, so I’ll leave off responding for now.
about 3 years ago
The Official website has finally been updated….wooooooooo
http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/
about 3 years ago
Why do the Spartans get the big press and the Thespians get ignored by most casual observers and commentators?
It seems obvious to me. Had the Spartans left, the Thespians would have done the same. HAd the Thespians left, the Spartans would have said, “Oh, goody! More Persians for me to kill.”
about 3 years ago
The problem with writing in black and white is that there’s no way to express easily that someone’s raised a good point that you grudgingly accept. I agree that the Thespians wouldn’t have stuck around, while the Spartans clearly would. I think this gets to the core of the reason which is that the Spartans clearly were a different sort of soldier than the other Greeks – though in Thucydides the Athenians do boast that they are the braver because they aren’t indoctrinated to be part of a military machine.