If your Stonehenge theory is nonsense, is mine rational because it’s not yours?

Sound at Stonehenge
I’m currently working with a group of bloggers on a site to be launched somewhere in the next few months. I’m not sure where yet. One of the features of the site is an informal rule that we won’t comment on news till at least seven days have passed from making the headlines. There’s a couple of reasons for this.
We’re all busy. Chasing the news is work and takes time. If we get stopped before we can finish it could be a while before we pick up the story again. In the meantime hot news has become old cold news and the key points have already been said a dozen times by everyone else. The post gets spiked and the time is wasted. Intentionally planning for a longer cycle changes how you approach a story and gives you not just the story to analyse but also the reaction too. In the case of the Stonehenge acoustics story the reaction is more interesting than the base story itself.
As a reminder Stephen Waller presented a talk at a meeting of American Association for the Advancement of Science in Vancouver. In it he proposed that the design of Stonehenge was related to auditory interference patterns between the sound of two flutes being played. Andy Burnham points out the obvious problem in his comment.
“Waller rigged two flutes to an air pump so they played the same note continuously” OK, fine, so how on earth is this relevant to the practicalities of an ancient society? In order to get strong, static cancellations in the sound you would need equal and unvarying sound pressure levels from each instrument, and for the sources to be from the same two points in space. How precisely would two flute players do this in practice without an air pump? ie having to take breaths and carry on this trick for any length of time. This is utter nonsense.
Andy Burnham is pretty much gold in this thread. In reaction to the idea this sound could be achieved by circular breathing, he also adds:
I don’t thin circular breathing is the answer — it’s pretty difficult on low resistance wind instruments such as the flute. Didgeridoos and suchlike won’t exhibit this effect — you need a high frequency pure tone — as close to a sine wave as possible — ie a flute. Bagpipes wouldn’t work either, unless someone invented some sort of ‘flute bagpipes’. A reedy bagpipe sound is rich in harmonics. The harmonic frequencies from the two instruments won’t create standing wave cancellations in the same places in space as the fundamental tones, so you won’t get same strong cancellation effect. And as I said you also need two fixed amplitudes and closely fixed point sources for the effect to work.
Sound is a difficult subject for archaeologists. Flutes or pipes seem likely, as to drums, but the closest prehistoric musical instruments, that I know archaeologists have found, are lurs from Denmark. These date to around the 8th century BC and survived because they were bronze, not organic material like wood or bone. You can see them in the logo for Lurpak butter. It’s been a while since I’ve read about this, so I’d be surprised if there weren’t now something older known. There are a couple of candidates for bone flutes that are older, this is the most promising artefact, but I don’t know how widely accepted they are yet.
Even though there’s scant evidence for music in the Neolithic and Bronze Age British Isles, it’s an odd leap to say it didn’t exist. Music in some form seems to be a constant in human society, so this is where a minimalist approach breaks down. But it’s not just musical instruments that are missing. I suspect a lot of Stonehenge is missing too.
Bits of it have broken off and it’s easy to spot where stones were missing but refilling these gaps, as many reconstructions do, doesn’t go far enough for me. The stones are the skeleton of Stonehenge. We don’t know if they were the whole body. We do know that the skeleton was a lot of work. The hard sarsen stones are crafted like wood, with tenon and mortice joints. Archaeologists currently believe that the bluestones were transported from far Wales. In light of this what else would have been at a living Stonehenge?
If you visit places of worship in modern times, there’s a bit more than stone. There’s wooden seats, often decorated rather than plain. The walls are painted, windows often decorated. It’s not unusual to find holy books n plush velvet cushions and textiles dyed in striking colours drawing the eye here and there. We also know textiles were used in Neolithic and Bronze Age times. So after the thousands of man-hours shaping the stones, how likely is it that Gareth turned to Shane and said: “That’s that done. No point in wasting time decorating it with tartans or drapes. That’ll just be tedious and gaudy.”?
Once you add textiles into Stonehenge the acoustic and visual properties change. There are many arguments that “If you look out of this gap you can see this star,” but you can’t if Blodwyn’s nifty ethnic rug is in the way. As scientists archaeologists need a minimalist model of Stonehenge as a foundation to build on, but this minimalist model is an unfinished work. It’s a tool to build an idea of what Stonehenge looked like on. If you’re going to say that it’s the finished model and we don’t need textiles, then all reconstructions should show anyone there naked because there’s no evidence for the clothes people wore there either.
As Andy Burnham pointed out, Steven Waller’s approach misses the practical use of Stonehenge by ancient peoples, and in this case adding people into the past makes Waller’s proposal either unworkable or an astonishing Jenga tower of special pleading. It’s safe to say I’m unconvinced, but I’ve not been too impressed with some of the reactions to the story either. “Crank’ seemed a common opinion, If Steven Waller were a crank then by presenting his work at a scientific conference he’s still closer to professional practice than archaeologists who issue a press release now before a talk in a few months time.
In fact a browse of his website shows he’s not likely to be a crank, just terribly unaware of the differences in approach between US and UK prehistory.
The bulk of his work is on rock art at American petroglyph sites. The acoustics of rock art in the US is a new field, but producing some interesting results. Some archaeologists are finding archaeoacoustics much more intriguing than, to pick a random example, archaeoastronomy. But American prehistory is different to British prehistory. They have a richer rock art record, especially in the southwest. They also have ethnographic records and research that can help connect meaning to symbols. It’s not perfect, and I’d like to debunk one interpretation of a site this summer, but it’s very very different to the limited things we can say about rock art here. It means that Waller’s American work can rely on cultural information that we simply don’t have here. What is accepted by US archaeologists about US sites is extremely speculative when applied to UK sites.
Very few people have commented on work around archaeoacoustics in general in relation to this story. A few commenters have mentioned Deveraux’s work, but mainly the thrust has been this story must be debunked. I don’t think for a moment archaeologists have consciously decided the outsider must be expelled, but I wonder if an eagerness to portray this as nonsense indicates something more. Subconsciously does rejecting Waller as nonsense and the opposite of what you do mentally reaffirm that your own theories must therefore by default be sound reasoning?
For something more positive about how sound can be explored in archaeology, Alan Boyle has written an interesting piece on MSNBC’s Cosmic Log.
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You don’t say what the purpose of the site is Alun: Stonehenge Theories?
I saw this story last week, and my immediate instinct was that it was suspect. Perhaps unfairly, and it’s interesting that you mention subconscious bias.
But, on further reading, it does seem that his conclusions are nonsensical. In one experiment, he has blindfolded people walk in a circle around the flutes/sound generator. Apparently, their response was that it sounded as if there were alternating objects and gaps that blocked the sound, or allowed it to pass. Fair enough — I’m sure that is scientifically accurate. But how does it apply to Stonehenge? They don’t need an acoustic generator to create the impression of solid objects blocking the sound, because it’s a henge — it’s made of big stones, in a very regular pattern, in this case. Perhaps he means to suggest that ancients people walked around it with their eyes closed, while dreaming of the day that mankind could rig up a couple of flutes to a leaf blower, and do away with huge construction projects altogether.
Seriously, though, what is his actual conclusion — I’ve not read a transcript of his seminar, and the news stories were pretty vague on it.
My Farther thought it was a spoof; — I have told about post-porocessual archaeology — but he finds it difficult to believe that Universities would let people make stuff up [he is an engineer].
Incidentally, I can prove objectively that Stonehenge was a building; you have nice picture of a replica load bearing wall — what do think it supported?
That Stonehenge was a timber building is beyond doubt in an empirical sense, you can prove it simply enough, but with a faith based subject like Academic Archaeology, you be better off telling creationists about DNA.
It can be anything you like as long as it is not a building; what people want, and get, is belief and mystery — oooh its so spooky man!
I’ll try to answer both comments at once, though it’ll be more like avoiding both comments at once.
I’m wary of any attempt at working the meaning of Stonehenge. It’s a site that gets altered over centuries. At best that could mean it had a different meaning at different times and at worst it had multiple meanings. Around phase 3 of the monument everything goes haywire and the site is rebuilt over and over in the course of around a lifetime.
Mike Pitts has a good summary of the claims, which is basically the site is modelled after an auditory pattern. That’s all you’ll get from the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America. I agree, it simply doesn’t work here.
My difficulty is recent news from Stonehenge is released in a surprisingly similar way. Here’s a story on a ceremonial pathway, with no reference to any paper, from last year. The significant solar alignment is from the middle of the cursus to the centre of Stonehenge — except on other occasions when its from the Heel Stone to the edges of the cursus. Why? Well, it could be because you have to fudge it to get a right answer or they could have sound reasons why one alignment is here and another there. Darvill and Wainwright put their ideas out on the BBC if I recall correctly before publishing their excavation results. I don’t agree with Darvill’s theories but I wouldn’t call him a crank, not least because he’s made his report publicly accessible.
They could also have good reasons for going to the press without a paper. Mike Parker Pearson ended up releasing news on Bluestonehenge early because of a leak. But if we accept this, then a paper at a major public meeting has to be fair game for reporting.
So here’s the puzzle. We accept that British archaeologists can issue press releases with unsupported assertions, but we can’t accept an American researcher who publishes regularly on acoustics, including a chapter in a volume from the McDonald Archaeological Institute. Is this because his idea is demonstrably wrong, or did people just see he’s not an archaeologist and are unconsciously demonstrating double-standards?
I’ve got to admit I’m not very happy with this post. It’s straddling two ideas. One is the acoustical theory, and one is the professional response to outsiders. I’m not sure I’m covering either very well with this. British archaeologists are not uniformly hostile to outsiders, but I think there’s a tendency towards a binary response that this is bad practice, therefore taking a stand against it makes what I do good practice.
I think, without making it personal and pointing at individuals as the problem, there’s a systemic problem in communicating beyond academia, and Stonehenge would be the most obvious case study to start with. It’s not as bad a problem as it has been, but still it would be more constructive to see this another round where we can rethink archaeological communication. That’ll require someone who’s quite happy to tackle the prominent stories, which will generally involve prominent professors who have control over job security. With the current cuts, I don’t see this happening soon.
And while I was writing that response, Geoff Carver posted his response. I agree with him 100% on Stonehenge being a timber building. I was saving that for later.
Genuinely stunned Alun, I thought I was in a minority of one; thank you for the vote of confidence.
It is far more interesting as building, although slightly less mysterious. In that context it has acoustic properties, that could be studied, if an accurate CAD or VR model is built.
• “Just too many maybe’s and could have’s to be called science.” Was one of the comments on the article by in the Guardian titled “Stonehenge was based on a magical auditory illusion, says scientist” Because I wanted to find a cause for these demotivators, I googled with the following words: “probably, maybe, could be, Stonehenge”. I stopped counting after one hundred answers. And got the word possibly as the usual encore.
• Evidently many explanations for early historical finds are not based on hard facts, such as they are expected for scientific work. By reading several of the internet articles, My impression was, that they were mostly clear answers to vague questions.
• During the past 25 years there have been many conferences and publications on cognitive archaeology, semiotics, and structuralism. Particularly the works of Charles Sanders Peirce, Umberto Ecco or Michel Foucault can help us to formulate such questions. I quote Foucault out of memory: “We only see the top layer of a cultural system, their language, schemes of observation, their techniques, and the values which controlled their lives.
• The demotivators can be omitted, by using as much of the available information as possible in the formulation of the questions. This requires multi disciplinary action.
Gusti; You have just summed up 20 wasted years of trying to explain archaeology by imagining how dead people perceived the world.
You can say it was a timber building with a stone load bearing wall, and pillars in the center; I can prove it empirically and I can model it. However, as most academics are expert in all the things that archaeologists never find — they would not know a building if it fell on their head.
It is just a building, like Woodhenge, Durrington Wall, the sanctuary and Mount Pleasant. and I challenge anyone to produce evidence to the contrary.
Interesting comments. How do those of you who believe this structure to have had a roof know what tell-tale signs would be there if that were the case?
Would you be sufficiently confident in your structural engineering abilities to be able to determine how to design or modify a modern structure to carry a roof?
If not, what other special knowledge do you have that allows you to know what to look for in a past structure?
As an admin note, I broke my arm over the weekend. Work has priority on my typing time at the moment, so I doubt I’ll be typing much here over the next week.
@Alan: During the past weekend we har thausends of people on the ski slopes near here because of the beautifull wearther. Were you one of them? I hope you will be better soon!
Wishing you a speedy recovery Alun, enjoy the opportunity for a rest!
I am conscious that this is Alun’s space, and I don’t want to turn into a forum for my own research.
However, briefly, Re: buildings; My analyses is based reverse engineering the structure from the precise position of the foundations. Successful buildings are static machines, governed by mechanics and geometry. Consideration has also to given to the materials, [in this case the nature of oak trees], and the available woodworking technology.
As this is ‘reverse engineering’ — ‘modern’ conception/ designs/ methods are not relevant, only the underling physics applies.
If you can demonstrate that the foundations have the necessary geometry and proportions, and explain how they were connected/assembled in 3d by a consistent system of construction, you can prove they were a buildings.
While this is fairly obvious for rectilinear structures, it is far more complex in circular buildings, but by the same token, much more precise.
This modelling of the evidence is reasonably objective, and requires understanding, not belief.
“My analyses is based reverse engineering the structure from the precise position of the foundations.”
You believe you can ‘reverse engineer’ a structure from the position of the foundations? I wish you the best of luck.
It is not a belief — I have done it.
It has taken me twenty years of research, and it is not what I set out to find;Stonehenge is an unfortunate byproduct of my work on postholes.
It is easier with postholes, and with complex roof shapes, such as Woodhenge, with [156 posts] points to reconcile, there is probably only one way a model can work.
My problem is people believe pictures, but don’t understand technical drawing.
I understand Technical drawing Geoff. If you have achieved a method of doing this, you should take out patents on the process: Once you have patents, people might be interested. Many people, in particular, planning advisers, would love to be able to prove the shape of a structure from ancient foundations: It might allow a large number of planning applications to proceed that would otherwise not get consent.
Good luck with your theory! I don’t believe it’s possible to do this because my experience of old foundations is that their form depends on the attitude, knowledge and competence of the builder. But good luck anyway.
I have published it on my website, but sadly it only works for certain types of prehistoric posthole structures, which are only of concern to archaeologists.
You should be able to back-engineer modern structures of the same type. Have you tried to work out superstructures from short length timber mini-pile foundations? If you have (such as at the docklands in London or near the Royal Arsenal where it was relatively common), you will find that the known superstructure was frequently different for similar posthole arrangements.
Good luck with the ideas though.
It is an entirely different system, with a different approach to engineering; joining trees together using joints cut with ground stone and early metal tools.
It modern terms, these structures are over engineered. For example, in the neolithic, it was felt necessary to support the ridge roof directly with posts, [although this also helps with assembly]. There are also no ‘load bearing walls of any scale, [so no trusses, and ties sit directly on posts], which is why Stonehenge is an unusual [for Britain].
Then your way to prove it will be to find traditional societies who use this method (post holes) and back-engineer their structures.
Good luck with your ideas.
Why would have to reverse engineer structures that already exist?
Building/ engineering is a technology, related to an individual environment and cultural requirement; Greek temples exist in their cultural diaspora, Roman forts in their own very specific context. You can’t understand medieval timber ships, simply by looking at Chinese Junks, etc.
Our ancient building are related to our our not so ancient buildings, which relate to our historical timber buildings — built from the same materials with similar tools for a similar climate, by a related culture.
“Why would have to reverse engineer structures that already exist?”
You would only want to do this to show that your method is not just a product of your imagination. At the moment your method appears to rely on proof by way of a results that do not actually exist (neolithic buildings no longer exist). It’s best to do the tests it in a way that can show that your tests were “blind” so that you can’t be accused of making facts up to suit.
Just what I would do in the same circumstance. If you think it’s unprovable under any circumstance, then it may be better to consider assigning the theory to the dustbin.
If there were any neolithic/EBA buildings still standing in N Europe I would not have to model these structures at all.
As it is, we have only the recovered plan of a structure — this is the evidence.
What I model is a ‘theoretical structure’ that matches the archaeological evidence, given the technological context of the archaeology, using the principles roughly outlined above.
It is, after all, what experimental archaeologists do at places like Butser, only I do it on paper, because it is cheaper, just as easy to test a model, and no trees get cut down; in addition, I can have many attempts at the same ground plan, refining my model until I can fully account for all of the recorded evidence.
Recording and structural analysis of standings structures is something quite different which I have done and published as part of my work as professional archaeologist.
“I can have many attempts at the same ground plan, refining my model until I can fully account for all of the recorded evidence.”
If you had refined it using another set of variables, you might have come to another conclusion which also accounted for all of the recorded evidence? The system might provide a likely outcome but it’s unlikely it could be definitive.
An example: The foundations for a huge braced areal mast would be similar to the foundations for a set of regularly arranged tied wind turbines. They are also similar to footing arrangements for large pieces of industrial kit. They are also similar to foundations of large multi-storey steel buildings. In the future, it may not be possible to determine which was which but, given the large number of multi-story steel buildings, it’s likely that what will be found in the future is foundations of buildings.
So your system might predict what might probably have been in place (a steel building) but it’s unlikely to be able to find anything else?
It’s only if you know to look for the hook straps of a tied structure that you’ll know it was tied. Only if you find traces of galvanizing will you know if it’s an open air structure or not. Only if the holding down bolts allow for some sort of AV installation will you know if it might have been industrial.
And with Stonehenge, if anyone with any practical knowledge of how to build things would have asked for specific things to be incorporated into the structure so that a roof could be built, things that could have been easily done, it doesn’t appear to me to make a great deal of sense to say that there was a roof, based on the foundation plan, if every one of those simple superstructure features are missing.
Not a good analogy, and completely out of context. I am modelling over a hundred individual fixed points, and can account for the depth, diameter, and position of each post.
The roof model is based on the position of the postholes; each Class Ei buildings [or timber circles] has a distinct, but related pattern of posts, Woodhenge has 156 postholes in 6 rings, and Stonehenge has 142 of them in 4 and the sarsen ring. The underlying engineering, proportions and layout is similar in all the examples I have looked at.
It even explains why postholes are deeper on one side than another, something that has only been noticed recently with modern surveying.
There are plans I have not examined, this are my control group, should anyone seriously challenge my conclusions.
Until someone comes up with a better explanation for the spatial distribution of these features, I will consider it proven, since it fits the physical evidence.
It is all explained, and illustrated in great detail on my website, should you wish to understand it; I am not interested in belief.
I do not wish to discuss this further here, as this is Alun’s website, but please feel free to comment on any of the specifics discussed on my own website.
Fair enough. Good luck with the ideas.